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| Dis-charge / Re-charge cells , is much Too much ? - Page 2 | |
| Rechargable cells | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26th, 2018 15:45 |
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11th Post |
Robert
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JK is good at typo's! LOL Thanks for the info Geoff, there are so many takes on this. I have also done a lot of research on this, you have to be careful to amalgamate facts rather than opinions! There are a lot of opinions on the net on this subject. Not as many reliable facts. Once a battery has gone below a predetermined, critical voltage, NOT to zero, then it can become unstable and dangerous to attempt to re-charge it, that's why if a battery has gone below the critical voltage, the correct charger should refuse to charge it. My understanding of the gradual improvements to Li-Ion batteries is the membrane used to package the 'jam rolley-poly' of chemicals is thinner and more resistant to leakage, hence slight increase in capacity for a given cell and slower self discharge rate.
____________________ Robert. |
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27th, 2018 05:25 |
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12th Post |
jk
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Technically yes the batteries should be termed Li-Ion batteries but in current market speak (check Google) they are Lion batteries. So either term is probably useable. Been working with these batteries for a long time now and I have moved from the tagged cells to using the battery holders where I can exchange the individual 18650 cells and recharge them rather using sealed battery systems like I developed for D1/D1X/D2X. I cannot believe it is 15 years ago since I first did the initial conversions for people. Latest version of my how to conversion document. http://www.jmknights.net/photography/downloads/files/AltConv-EH4-battery-2010.pdf If Nikon had made slightly less compact (more space) battery compartment, e.g. those on Canons then I would have had a much easier to develop product. Reminder to all. Lion batteries tend to die after about 5 years use or 400-1000 recharges. It does depend on how you treat the batteries.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27th, 2018 12:05 |
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13th Post |
GeoffR
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Robert wrote: Once a battery has gone below a predetermined, critical voltage, NOT to zero, then it can become unstable and dangerous to attempt to re-charge it, that's why if a battery has gone below the critical voltage, the correct charger should refuse to charge it.Absolutely correct, and very expensive when a set of cells costs $64,000! Boeing reasoned, correctly in my opinion, that it was better to allow a complete discharge than have the battery die just short of an airport. A 787 costs rather more than $64,000.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27th, 2018 13:38 |
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14th Post |
jk
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GeoffR wrote:Robert wrote:Once a battery has gone below a predetermined, critical voltage, NOT to zero, then it can become unstable and dangerous to attempt to re-charge it, that's why if a battery has gone below the critical voltage, the correct charger should refuse to charge it.Absolutely correct, and very expensive when a set of cells costs $64,000! Boeing reasoned, correctly in my opinion, that it was better to allow a complete discharge than have the battery die just short of an airport. A 787 costs rather more than $64,000. Well those spares or replacements are pretty expensive as well! How many cells in the set? Voltage and Amperage? Cant they recharge from the engines?
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27th, 2018 14:58 |
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15th Post |
GeoffR
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jk wrote: GeoffR wrote:Can't remember the details of the battery, 28V obviously but I need to find my notes for the rest. Once the cell voltage is below the minimum the charger shuts down and won't charge the battery. Doesn't matter what power source, Ground Power, APU or Engines, once discharged below minimum the cells are toast. It is one big battery and they, there are two, live in fire proof vaults vented overboard.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28th, 2018 01:44 |
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16th Post |
jk
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GeoffR wrote:jk wrote:GeoffR wrote:Can't remember the details of the battery, 28V obviously but I need to find my notes for the rest. Once the cell voltage is below the minimum the charger shuts down and won't charge the battery. Doesn't matter what power source, Ground Power, APU or Engines, once discharged below minimum the cells are toast. It is one big battery and they, there are two, live in fire proof vaults vented overboard. Interesting stuff. Thanks for the information Geoff. These and the new polymer batteries promse much for electric power rather than fossil fuel engines but I still think that Hydrogen fuel cells are the way if we can overcome the safety/explosion issues.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28th, 2018 02:15 |
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17th Post |
Robert
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Necessity being the mother of invention, something will come along. A lot of very clever things came from the original space exploration projects. The first cars were horse, then steam, which gave way to petrol and eventually diesel. Perhaps we go back to horse!
____________________ Robert. |
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28th, 2018 06:05 |
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18th Post |
GeoffR
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Robert wrote: Necessity being the mother of invention, something will come along.Well actually, Horse, Steam, Diesel, Petrol. The first Diesel type engine was invented in 1802 but the Otto cycle (4 stroke cycle) wasn't introduced until 1861. The dates at which each was adopted into a road vehicle may, of course be different.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28th, 2018 13:35 |
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19th Post |
novicius
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Here`s how to recussitate Nihm rechargeables... http://www.robgalbraith.com/content_page90f8.html?cid=7-4419-4424 Could it be done with Li-ion`s ?
____________________ Back in Danmark I do not use my equipment to make photo`s .. I take photo`s to use my equipment The better I become at photography,the better my camera gets. |
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28th, 2018 14:59 |
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20th Post |
Robert
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novicius wrote:Could it be done with Li-ion`s ? Nnoooooo Please, don't do it! This is a trick I use with lead acid batteries which modern chargers often won't re-charge. Never, ever try to recharge an Li-Ion battery by forcing it to increase Voltage. They are incredibly sensitive to Voltage. Without going into the chemistry that would be a sure fire way of burning your house down. And another thing, if by some misfortune you do experience a fire with an Li-Ion battery douse it with water, or submerge it to cool the cells. Fortunately, with batteries like the Nikon camera batteries, they are protected internally by clever circuitry which should refuse any attempt to force charge the battery if a direct connection is made.
____________________ Robert. |
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