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| What is HIGH ISO? - Page 1 | |
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24th, 2018 09:18 |
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1st Post |
Eric
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As you may be aware I have been having noise dissatisfactions with my bird photos. The low winter lighting, the need to have good dof and fast shutter speeds pushed the ISO into 4000plus on many occasions. While trying to ascertain whether my D500 was performing to spec I took a look at the on board High ISO Noise Reduction menu option setting. I noticed my setting was on LOW. The default setting for the camera is NORMAL. Not sure when I altered that setting but it may be a significant reason for my current dissatisfaction? Need to do some tests after Christmas. All this raises a question in my mind....what level do Nikon and therefore WE regard as High ISO, sufficient that it warrants noise reduction intervention? Reading a couple of Nikon's bulletins, they talk about using Nikon cameras at “high ISOs of 800, 1600, 3200 or even higherâ€. REALLY? The D500 normal ISO tops out at 51,000...with a H5 option of 1,600,000!! I naively thought, with this potential, that 'high ISO' would be defined and 'start' significantly more than 800, 1600 or 3200? So when does the High ISO Noise Reduction kick in? And with what intensity? I gather? that the application of this damping effect is incremental through the ISO range. But, is it necessary / applied from as low as 800? I suppose this is at the root of my disappointment. Early dslrs we're fine at 100/200 but hit a rapidly increasing noise problem beyond 800. Why so little improvement in LOW/MEDIUM? ISO noise intervention since then? With 51000plus to play with, it would be nice if noise reduction wasn't necessary until (say) 5000.....ie 10% of the sensors full potential?
____________________ Eric |
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24th, 2018 10:43 |
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2nd Post |
jk
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Does NR happen in RAW shooting even at High ISO?. I need to look it up.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
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| Posted: Mon Dec 24th, 2018 11:29 |
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3rd Post |
Eric
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jk wrote:Does NR happen in RAW shooting even at High ISO?. I need to look it up. The info says YES....but it can be undone with NEFs in ACR, not so with JPEGs
____________________ Eric |
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26th, 2018 04:44 |
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4th Post |
blackfox
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sorry Eric but I think your problem lies within your own processing regime and your expectations , added to the manufactures own stories about what can be done .. ALL camera makers got carried away about 10 years ago into making cameras that would not only take photos but also take video herein lies the problem it has increased complexity and distracted things . I have used a lot of cameras across the brands and sensor sizes and most of our expectations as far as wildlife are concerned come down to one problem CROPPING , if you use a full frame camera to take a image and a crop factor camera to take the same image to get them both to the size you want you need to crop in . doing this will induce noise in the image , then add that a lot of our photos are taken in low light situations the problem will get worse , correct exposure compensation will help but not cure it . I find that virtually every wildlife photo I take with what ever camera/lens combo suffers from noise . it's really then down to using the available processing tools to cure the problem . I use Lightroom and photoshop the former for cropping and colour sorting the latter for layering the image . I ALWAYS layer every pic and apply noise reduction through a plug in made by imageonic . then sharpen the bird/animal as needed the whole process takes about 3 to 4 minutes . there unfortunately is no way round it at this moment in time , if you allow the camera to do the noise reduction it will simply apply it to the whole image making it softer
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26th, 2018 04:57 |
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5th Post |
blackfox
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just done a quick example taken with the Panasonic g80 and 100-400 lens , the first one is straight O.O.C with no noise reduction just a cropped and Lightroom enhancements taken at 6400iso in deep woodlands Attachment: example 1 .jpg (Downloaded 26 times)
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26th, 2018 04:58 |
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6th Post |
blackfox
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the second shot with imageonic applied, unfortunately the direct up load has taken the richness out of the colours , but the noise is the gone Attachment: example 2 de noise applied .jpg (Downloaded 27 times)
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26th, 2018 08:56 |
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7th Post |
Eric
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blackfox wrote:sorry Eric but I think your problem lies within your own processing regime and your expectations , added to the manufactures own stories about what can be done .. Thanks Jeff I confess I had come to that conclusion from your previous posts and examples. I suppose in posting this thread I was just venting my annoyance and frustration that the industry has moved on in so many ways, made cameras that can have miraculous performance 'upper storeys' ( just learnt the D500 can do an H5 iso of 1,600,000  ) but no one seems to have updated the “upper ground floor' .....where most of us spend our time and energy. We still have noise at 4000.... why haven't they lifted THAT threshold to (say) 10000?I realise, in wildlife, I am joining a new genre of photography and it takes time to change my commercial way of working for the last 25years ....where individual shots could take 30mins to arrange, light and expose  I will get there.... with you experienced birding photographers helping and by practising in the field. I've also been reading some interesting articles on exposure, iso etc etc. It's amazing how the blindingly obvious can be overlooked. For example....if the background is darker than the correctly exposed subject..... it will be underexposed...and as such more prone to noise anyway.  But as you say, in the absence of some momentous change in sensors 'upper ground floor' performance, noise management will still be part of the processing workflow 
____________________ Eric |
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26th, 2018 09:13 |
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8th Post |
Eric
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Eric wrote:jk wrote: Having read another article that reply may be incorrect.  But many NEF shooters recommend leaving it OFF entirely in the camera and applying noise reduction in LR, PS or another noise specific programme afterwards. That sort of suggests it WILL carry forward those camera settings ?? Whatever the truth, I have always subscribed to the need to do final adjustments on the computer afterwards. My problem of late is the starting level of noise out of the camera seemed excessive....requiring more computer intervention than I had hoped would be necessary.
____________________ Eric |
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26th, 2018 09:45 |
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9th Post |
Robert
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Just passing... I have notice with alarm that you keep saying you save as JPEG, "it will be 'good enough'" If I may say so it WON'T be 'good enough', you are complaining about IQ, use the highest quality NEF's you can lay your hands on just for starters, and leave the noise reduction for the computer. The available choice of NR software is far greater and infinitely more controllable than what the camera has to offer. Use layers and masking, you are the expert in that department yet you seem to be missing it. OK you are fed up with using computers but if you want the good results in my view it's the only way. Off to the tip!
____________________ Robert. |
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26th, 2018 10:46 |
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10th Post |
blackfox
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In reflection Eric wildlife photography is a specialist genre , the very best work is carried out by throwing extreme amounts of money at it in terms of bodies ,lenses and computer p.p ... It can however be done on the cheap if your willing to find the ways around it which I have been forced into doing . But as you say the one thing that has proved a sticking point over the years has been digital noise , and I suppose I'm lucky in a way having chopped and changed bodies and lenses over the years that I can look back at stuff and choose what worked best , hence my D300s purchase , as your finding sometimes the latest and greatest leaves you lacking . The other thing I look at is the actual feel of the photo , my gut feelings is while things may have improved with these new sensors and finer detail can be resolved it's like comparing paintings by different artists a Van Gogh to a MichaelAngelo for instance both are good but in there own way My wildlife style is walkabout and get away from other people where possible . advancing years and deteriating health made me change to MFT gear earlier this year ,it's good as you have seen but still lacking in certain respects . I suppose in reality I'm trying to get back to a point in time where I liked the work I was producing
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