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| D800 cropping and hand holding | Rate Topic |
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| Posted by Eric: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 05:32 | 1st Post |
| Has the D800 now cemented the belief that cropping an FX sensor is better than a DX body or teleconverter? (OK if the D400 comes along that may change the goalposts again!!!!) I always maintained that cropping my D3 images to a DX size frame was better than using a 1.4x* teleconverter and on a par with the D300 image direct from the camera. Of course the file size was then always smaller which could present problems when using the pictures in large prints (once in a blue moon). As a result my D300 and teleconverters fell into non use. The only downside was the weight and bulk of the D3 in casual use situations. But I am starting to think that after faithful service since its launch, my D3 is approaching retirement/replacement time. The D800 lighter/ less bulky body may bring it into the dual role of professional and holiday use. I have always felt self conscious (more vulnerable?) wealding a D3 and pro lens ensemble in tourist/citylocations....and certainly I never used a tripod. But historically more pixels required more precise technique. I found the 12mp D2X to only be better than the 6mp D1X when used on a tripod! The bigger D3 pixels were more forgiving. Of course the noise free higher ISOs mean faster shutter speeds will help with hand holding. But I would really like to know from D800 owners whether they have experienced any quality 'disappointments' when hand holding? In short, can you use the D800 as a casual walk around body? *( 2x teleconverters were a different story)
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 06:54 | 2nd Post |
| I agree with those sentiments and I think that is the reason why whenever I wheel out my old D1X that I feel very happy with its results. Also I have never been 100% happy with the output from the D300 but I think it is a case of the D3 spoiling my expectations. Results from the D300 always seem to be more noisy and not quite so well rendered as from the D3. I will probably buy a D800 later this year but at present I want to use the Fuji XPro1 which is proving to be very satisfying. 16MP very light shooting JPGs. The Fuji RAW processor is somewhat slow but still useable so I will probably move back to RAW soon and hopefully by then Lightroom and Photoshop ACR will be supporting Fuji XPro1 RAW format.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 09:58 | 3rd Post |
jk wrote: I agree with those sentiments and I think that is the reason why whenever I wheel out my old D1X that I feel very happy with its results. I NEARLY bought an XPro but I am just not certain that its the right direction. Sure if it is better than the X100 its going to be brilliant, but its the crossover to telephoto and DSLR that worries me. If I KNOW that my shooting for the day is going to be 24mm, 50mm & 90mm then an XPro with these lenses would be a nice compact lightweight solution. But I find that I invariably need a longer lens with me. Last time on holiday (see Avatar  ) I carried the X100 for wide and the D7000 with a 55-200 zoom. They fulfilled all my colour needs but there were occasions when I tripped over the Fuji peculiarities and difference in function buttons at critical moments, swopping back and forth.Having one body with a range of lenses, or two similar (eg layout of functions ) bodies sharing lenses is still my preferred set up for a casual days shooting. I am taking a revolutionary step in May and ONLY taking the D7000 and 3 lenses. Maybe after that I will have a clearer direction.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 11:20 | 4th Post |
| The X100 and XP1 are similar concept but the XP1 is better executed. The nice thing is that used as a pair they are perfect for travel. Both camera bodies and a 35mm f1.4 and 60mm f2.4 for the XP1 will weigh no more than the D3 with battery. I do agree that a long telephoto would be good but if you have a Kipon adapter you can add Nikon lenses to the XP1 but you need to shoot them in manual focus mode and also with stop down metering. I am thinking that a D800 will complement this setup very nicely but that the D800 would have a 70-300 AFS VR attached. Having the X100 has convinced me that for landscape work where I predominantly use 20-35mm that I dont need a DSLR as a decent camera such as the XP1 gives me everything.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Squarerigger: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 11:26 | 5th Post |
Eric wrote:jk wrote:I agree with those sentiments and I think that is the reason why whenever I wheel out my old D1X that I feel very happy with its results. I only own the D7000 so which camera body to take on trips is easy for me. I always take a Nikon 12-24mm, Nikon 24-70mm, and a Nikon 70-300mm lens and they seem to take care of all my needs. The only problem is my wife complains from time to time about the weight. 
____________________ -------------------------------------------- Gary |
| Posted by jk: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 11:43 | 6th Post |
What you make her carry the camera and lens Gary!
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Squarerigger: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 11:47 | 7th Post |
jk wrote:What you make her carry the camera and lens Gary! It's all in the prenuptial agreement she signed 40 years ago. 
____________________ -------------------------------------------- Gary |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 12:11 | 8th Post |
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 13:00 | 9th Post |
Squarerigger wrote:jk wrote: Love it! Someone sent me a joke email recently. It showed an elderly man lounging in a comfy chair and idly typing on his laptop. He called out to his wife in the next room "when I die darling, I am going to leave everything to you" The reply came back " you already do ....you lazy b*****d!" Oops I forgot asterisks are also banned on this forum.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 13:06 | 10th Post |
jk wrote:The X100 and XP1 are similar concept but the XP1 is better executed. Hmm you may be right. But if you take the D800 with the 70-300 attached you only need to add the 20-35 anyway? Perhaps we should run a what's the weight, focal reach and workability of your walkaround kit, poll?
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 13:09 | 11th Post |
| I'm think a nice 16-35mm f4 VR will come my way with the D800.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Ray Ninness: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 17:55 | 12th Post |
| Well as you know I have always been a proponent of dual bodies, less fumbling around when the action heats up. And less open orifices for dust to wander in on a sensor .. If I can I avoid changing lenses in windy conditions.. And when I shoot an occasional dirt track race, I don't even think about lens changing unless I'm locked safely in the vehicle!!! And if I were to get a new DSLR it would be the D800, but then I'd want a pair :-O $$$$$$$$   Be safe
____________________ Ray Ninness F8Photos.com Bedford, New Hampshire USA |
| Posted by amazing50: Thu Apr 19th, 2012 22:27 | 13th Post |
| I frequently travel to Europe for business and put in some holiday pix as well. I've found that for a light kit a D5000, now replaced by a D5100 with a Tameron 18-270 VR lens fits the bill. Since I use the Hi Def movie feature, as well as stills, for record promotions, it has worked out well. With this lens and cropping in the viewfinder my shots and vid clips have earned return assignments. I recently ordered an adapter and tested the Haselblad Sonar 1.5.6 250mm to the Tameron at 250mm. The Sonnar was only marginally sharper on the D5100 in 24x36 print size. Recently added a Sigma 8-16mm to my kit and will take ti on my next trip.
____________________ There is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept ;~) Mike Grace |
| Posted by Eric: Fri Apr 20th, 2012 07:13 | 14th Post |
amazing50 wrote:I frequently travel to Europe for business and put in some holiday pix as well. I've found that for a light kit a D5000, now replaced by a D5100 with a Tameron 18-270 VR lens fits the bill. Thats an interesting combination and atypical compared to the regular posts on walkaround options. It would be good to see some images taken with the various combos? :thumbsup:
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Fri Apr 27th, 2012 12:03 | 15th Post |
| I found the D3X was too large to take on overseas holidays and now I am retired no longer need a full sized pro body so was happy to let it go and sold it with the D300 when I got the D800. I now have best of both worlds in one reasonably sized body. I do miss my 18-200mm DX lens I had on the D300. But I am finding the 24-70mm AF-S is doing most of what I need on my USA trip. I state again quality is out of this world and quite a lot better than the D3X. I think the movie is also very good but I will need to see in my edit computer when I get home before reporting. High ISO also looks good but have not done much on this trip. I may look at the new 24-120mm when I get back as an all in one travel lens but I was not impressed with the old version. To sum up the D800 is an ideal camera for me and will also work for my studio workshops in UK and cope for the odd pro job that still comes in from some of my old clients.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Eric: Fri Apr 27th, 2012 13:12 | 16th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:I found the D3X was too large to take on overseas holidays and now I am retired no longer need a full sized pro body so was happy to let it go and sold it with the D300 when I got the D800. I now have best of both worlds in one reasonably sized body. I do miss my 18-200mm DX lens I had on the D300. But I am finding the 24-70mm AF-S is doing most of what I need on my USA trip. I state again quality is out of this world and quite a lot better than the D3X. I think the movie is also very good but I will need to see in my edit computer when I get home before reporting. High ISO also looks good but have not done much on this trip. I am following your experiences like a hawk, Graham, being on the point of retiring myself and, like you, wanting to retain some equipment for any paying work that still may come along. I was concerned that having such a high pixel sensor, as the D800, might render it more demanding than I would want when on holiday. But your results are convincing me it can have a dual role.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Robert: Fri Apr 27th, 2012 15:54 | 17th Post |
| What will do a lot will do a little. :smallthumbs:
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Fri Apr 27th, 2012 17:33 | 18th Post |
Robert wrote:What will do a lot will do a little. :smallthumbs: True to some extent. But more like....What will do a lot, CAN do a little....under certain circumstances. You wouldn't have taken a plate camera on holiday. However brilliant an image it produces, it would be cr*p at grab and action shots. Like, Graham, despite its forgiving nature I wouldn't take my D3 on vacation due to bulk ...but with the D800 it sounds like we have a more versatile body.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Fri Apr 27th, 2012 19:50 | 19th Post |
| Shot some movie with the D800 today so I have some footage to report on when I get back. D800 working very well and all functions now normal after my battery problem.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by jk: Fri Jun 1st, 2012 17:39 | 20th Post |
| OK so now I have my D800 and have been shooting it initially in UK with some less than perfect old glass (Nikon 28-200 f3.5-5.6 AF ED) and now back home I can use my Nikon 24-70 f2.8 AFS. There is a noticeable difference in quality as expected. So Yes good glass definitely shows the difference on the D800. This was also apparent with the D3 but to a much lesser extent. Next tests are to prove the point that Dave Groen raised which is that on D3/D700 it was possible to hand hold and get usable results at the reciprocal of the lens focal length minus 1 stop e.g so with a 100mm lens you could possibly get away with 1/50th sec., but with D800 it seems that it is better to use +1 stop e.g. For 100mm lens you need to use 1/200th second. I did some quick and dirty tests today and I think that this is a very good new rule with the D800. This camera is very picky about your technique. I will try to do some flash and on tripod tests in the next week.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Dave Groen: Fri Jun 1st, 2012 22:32 | 21st Post |
| Nikon D800 & 17-35f2.8 at 35mm, 1/80 @ f11, ISO 900 hand held Similar shot with 24-120VR f3.5-5.6 with all the same settings was not as sharp. This was due to lens resolution, not camera motion. Attachment: _D8G0186-1.jpg (Downloaded 82 times)
____________________ I started out with nothing and still have most of it left |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Jun 2nd, 2012 04:46 | 22nd Post |
| Yes think before shooting take a little longer to compose your picture and double check your settings, taking your time makes for good photography. If hand holding are you well balanced with firm foothold etc... I agree use the faster shutter speeds is always good news. Also in bright light you do not want to go beyond f11 as we all know most lenses are at best f5.6-f11 so have faster shutter speed keeps you in the range. I am also please to see that D800 has 100 ISO it all helps.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Constable: Sun Jun 3rd, 2012 14:38 | 23rd Post |
| JK I agree about the 1/length + 1 stop rule. just had a weekend away with the D4 and D800E. Basically blown away by them. For any birders the attached image is kind of weird. Firstly, I picked up all of the wrong kit as i left the house (200 mm not 300 mm, 1.7 TC not 2 TC. Emergency stop on the way put D800 on the floor (OK, my fault). But I can confirm that the build quality is good. This is taken on the D800E with the 200 + 1.7 in FX mode (should have been 300 + 2.0 and probably DX = 900 mm). But it is handheld ISO400, f 6.3, 1/250th. Oh yes, and the final ****-up. For some reason I had left the camera on +0.3E The only reason for posting, is that this bird is shaking its head at a phenomenal speed not to be frozen at 1/250th I am quite pleased. Ed Attachment: 800_1069.jpg (Downloaded 71 times)
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| Posted by jk: Sun Jun 3rd, 2012 14:41 | 24th Post |
| Nice picture Ed. Amazing swirl of a kingfisher! Where was this in Basle area? You were lucky to be that close with your combo. Branch is nice and sharp
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Squarerigger: Sun Jun 3rd, 2012 14:43 | 25th Post |
| Very unique Ed. What was flying off the bird that made the white lines?
____________________ -------------------------------------------- Gary |
| Posted by jk: Sun Jun 3rd, 2012 14:51 | 26th Post |
| The tones in Dave Groen's picture are fabulous. Great light and well captured.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by jk: Sun Jun 3rd, 2012 14:53 | 27th Post |
| I have found one little niggle with the D800 but maybe I'm missing a trick. On the D3S I use the switch on the back to change between the three AF sensor modes. I dont seem to get the same controls on the D800 or am I missing something ?
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Dave Groen: Sun Jun 3rd, 2012 23:14 | 28th Post |
| There is a button in the center of the AF-M lever on the front below the lens release button. Press this button and use the main and sub-command dials to change focus modes. The mode is shown on the top LCD display. See page 92 in the manual.
____________________ I started out with nothing and still have most of it left |
| Posted by Dave Groen: Sun Jun 3rd, 2012 23:21 | 29th Post |
jk wrote:The tones in Dave Groen's picture are fabulous. Great light and well captured. Thank you. No photoshop manipulation, just choosing the right time of day (just before sunset) and careful exposure.
____________________ I started out with nothing and still have most of it left |
| Posted by jk: Mon Jun 4th, 2012 02:11 | 30th Post |
Dave Groen wrote:There is a button in the center of the AF-M lever on the front below the lens release button. Press this button and use the main and sub-command dials to change focus modes. The mode is shown on the top LCD display. See page 92 in the manual. Thanks Dave. I found it last night when I read the manual, not something I do routinely. Logically I can see the reasoning for the move but ergonomically it is less efficient as the new process requires both hands while the old one required only one thumb.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by jk: Mon Jun 4th, 2012 02:14 | 31st Post |
Dave Groen wrote:jk wrote: My preferred option. Right time of day and correct exposure and little or no Photoshop. I really dont understand the current fad to Photoshop everything to death. 1 image = take time 1/200 sec plus manipulation time 2 hours.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Ray Ninness: Mon Jun 4th, 2012 11:35 | 32nd Post |
Eric wrote: Has the D800 now cemented the belief that cropping an FX sensor is better than a DX body or teleconverter? (OK if the D400 comes along that may change the goalposts again!!!!)One thing I think you will run into is that same thing that had me getting the bases for my D700's?? The shorter body like the D800 leaves the little finger hanging out in space, and when I hunched my hand up on the body my index finger kept triggering the Auto Stop Down button.. The second thing was the lack of the vertical release, I really missed that thing, as I have always used Nikon Pro bodies, and when using the D700 named, I am always hunting around for how to fire the shutter when I have to shoot a vertical!!! Just a thought or two, Eric??? 
____________________ Ray Ninness F8Photos.com Bedford, New Hampshire USA |
| Posted by Eric: Mon Jun 4th, 2012 15:44 | 33rd Post |
Ray Ninness wrote:Eric wrote:Has the D800 now cemented the belief that cropping an FX sensor is better than a DX body or teleconverter? (OK if the D400 comes along that may change the goalposts again!!!!)One thing I think you will run into is that same thing that had me getting the bases for my D700's?? The shorter body like the D800 leaves the little finger hanging out in space, and when I hunched my hand up on the body my index finger kept triggering the Auto Stop Down button.. The second thing was the lack of the vertical release, I really missed that thing, as I have always used Nikon Pro bodies, and when using the D700 named, I am always hunting around for how to fire the shutter when I have to shoot a vertical!!! Having used the even smaller D7000 for some time when on vacation, I seem to have cured my wayward pinkie. Using the D200 (as I do for IR) I am quite comfortable without a grip. In fact the D3 seems quite heavy when I have to return to work. I have a big shoot at a London Hotel next month...I will need to get back into training after the recent month off!
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Squarerigger: Tue Jun 5th, 2012 05:38 | 34th Post |
Eric wrote:Ray Ninness wrote: I thought you were on the road to retirement Eric?
____________________ -------------------------------------------- Gary |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Jun 5th, 2012 06:16 | 35th Post |
Squarerigger wrote:Eric wrote: I am, but a month long european tour (11 tankfuls of petrol alone!) have made a hole in the retirement fund that needs refilling....and it's hard to turn down existing clients, when they want to help.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Tue Jun 5th, 2012 11:58 | 36th Post |
Eric wrote
He enjoys his work too much. Now he works for petrol, liquid gold!.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Iain: Wed Jun 6th, 2012 07:51 | 37th Post |
jk wrote:Dave Groen wrote: One of my complaints when I used the D7000, when you are hand holding a heavy lens it becomes a bit ungainly trying to change something that a twitch of a thumb used to do.
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| Posted by Robert: Wed Jun 6th, 2012 08:09 | 38th Post |
| Likewise with the D3100 having to go to Menu items to do routine things like ISO and re-formatting the CF Card.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Constable: Sun Jun 10th, 2012 14:56 | 39th Post |
| I can't resist posting this one. D800 + Nikkor 200 Macro Ed Attachment: 224660.jpg (Downloaded 14 times)
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| Posted by Robert: Sun Jun 10th, 2012 15:44 | 40th Post |
Very Good Ed, it wins by a hairs breadth... 
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Dave Groen: Sun Jun 10th, 2012 19:08 | 41st Post |
| I shot this yesterday. D800 with 80-200 f2.8 AFS, 135 mm, 1/800@f3.5, hand held. The subject was approaching me at extremely high speed as I was panning. I got off four shots and the D800's focusing kept up with the subject - all were acceptable. This was at the start of a 1/4 mile drag race. The car is ~2000 hp burning nitromethane (see the deflection of the rear tires). Sharpness is very good, so hand holding was not an issue. Attachment: _D8G0572_full.jpg (Downloaded 32 times)
____________________ I started out with nothing and still have most of it left |
| Posted by Dave Groen: Sun Jun 10th, 2012 19:09 | 42nd Post |
| Here is a full scale zoom of the image above. Attachment: _D8G0572_zoom.jpg (Downloaded 32 times)
____________________ I started out with nothing and still have most of it left |
| Posted by Dave Groen: Sun Jun 10th, 2012 19:23 | 43rd Post |
| Here is a slower-moving subject. D800, 80-200f2.8 , 200 mm, AFS 1/320@f5.6, but on a flimsy tripod. Attachment: _D8G0292-1.jpg (Downloaded 32 times)
____________________ I started out with nothing and still have most of it left |
| Posted by Dave Groen: Sun Jun 10th, 2012 19:24 | 44th Post |
| And again, here is a full scale zoom of the image above. There's peoples! Attachment: _D8G0292_zoom.jpg (Downloaded 32 times)
____________________ I started out with nothing and still have most of it left |
| Posted by jk: Mon Jun 11th, 2012 03:08 | 45th Post |
| Be interested to see that landscape at different shutter speeds Dave. Yours is sharp as shown by the crop. 1/320 is approx. same as 1/lens focal length plus 1 stop. In fact it is 1/3 stop less.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Mon Jun 11th, 2012 05:47 | 46th Post |
| That reminds me....... I need to get a haircut this week. Excellent shot of an impressive fella!
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Dave Groen: Mon Jun 11th, 2012 07:28 | 47th Post |
jk wrote: Be interested to see that landscape at different shutter speeds Dave. Yours is sharp as shown by the crop. I was at this location for only a few hours so was just grabbing shots at the best shutter speed I could manage for f5.6. I was being more a tourist than a D800 tester. I had already done testing at various shutter speeds the previous week, taking shots of a lamp post across the street from my house. That's how I arrived at my 1/focal length + 1 stop rule. It's a nice lamp post, but the rock formations look a lot nicer. I'd be interested in others' experience. This rule works for me but I have a genetic nerve condition that is gradually shutting down muscles. So far only certain muscles in my legs have been affected, but the result is that I have trouble standing solidly in one position even if I cradle the camera while standing feet-apart and bracing my elbows against my body.
____________________ I started out with nothing and still have most of it left |
| Posted by jk: Mon Jun 11th, 2012 07:31 | 48th Post |
| Nice to see that the 80-200 f2.8 AFS performs so well on the D800. I think my 80-200 AFS has better colour than the 70-200 AFS VR which seems a little cool/blue.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
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