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| Choices - Page 2 | |
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| Posted: Mon Feb 4th, 2019 04:53 |
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11th Post |
GeoffR
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Can we put this in perspective? A D3 is less noisy than a D300, they are both the same generation of sensors so a bigger pixel is less noisy than a smaller one. The D4 is less noisy than a D3, a later sensor with smaller pixels but better (lower) noise at a given ISO. I haven't used any of the DX bodies since the D2X so I can't give an experience based assessment however, it is likely that the newer 24MP sensors are less noisy than the 12MP sensor in the D300, again for any given ISO. Yes the D500 is the lineal descendant of the D300 and 20MP is probably more than adequate but, that isn't the question. The question is "what is a cheap upgrade from a D300?". I don't know because I use only FX bodies and I have the lenses I want for what I do. For birds I rely on getting close enough to fill the frame, last week I was too close to a Heron with a 300 f4 AF-D, a 24-70 proved more suitable. So as a "cheap upgrade" either a D7NNN or a D800, I would have thought the latter used in DX crop mode giving a 15MP image might have less noise. However the reason for wanting to upgrade is also of some importance. If the reason is to get more pixels at the same or less noise the D7NNN series offers a greater increase in pixel count and should be no more noisy than the D300. The D800 offers a modest increase in pixel count, in DX mode, again with no more noise than the D300 but also has the option of operating in FX mode giving a huge increase in pixel count for suitably close subjects. I'm not going to say what I would do because I am biased.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 4th, 2019 05:41 |
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12th Post |
Eric
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GeoffR wrote:Can we put this in perspective? A D3 is less noisy than a D300, they are both the same generation of sensors so a bigger pixel is less noisy than a smaller one. The D4 is less noisy than a D3, a later sensor with smaller pixels but better (lower) noise at a given ISO. I haven't used any of the DX bodies since the D2X so I can't give an experience based assessment however, it is likely that the newer 24MP sensors are less noisy than the 12MP sensor in the D300, again for any given ISO. Geoff...quick question. I assume you are using a D4. If that's so, at what ISO do you discern noticeable noise and at what ISO do you feel it becomes necessary to intervene with noise reduction software? I realise it's subjective but never having gone beyond the D3 I am interested to see what improvement there was in the more usual ISO range of (say) under 4000. The D850 (and D500) have noticeable noise out of the camera at 2500ish which very quickly needs attention at 4000. Whilst this is an improvement over the D3, it's surprisingly little, given the development period elapsed. I wonder if the cramming of more pixels, even though as you say they have been improved, is still inferior to the D4/D5 sensors?
____________________ Eric |
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| Posted: Mon Feb 4th, 2019 06:23 |
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13th Post |
GeoffR
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Eric, in practice I find the D4 about 1 to 1.5 stops better than the D3 but I haven't done any direct comparison between them or tried to determine when noise becomes discernible. As you say it is subjective but also variable because high ISO in good light, by mistake, is less noisy than the same ISO to achieve an acceptable shutter speed. Additionally, I may accept the noise without intervention if I get the image I want. I took the lights at Waddesdon Manor in December at a high ISO ignoring the noise because it worked but I wouldn't expect to print the images like that though.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 4th, 2019 07:18 |
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14th Post |
blackfox
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iv'e actually had a friend pop round this morning who has just bought the same lens as me a sigma 150-600 C and he has it bolted to a D3300 .I was quite surprised at how fast it was to focus and its burst rate , I have yet to see any photos from it but they looked o.k on back of camera .. and it really does put the d7200 back in the ball park .. time will tell
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| Posted: Mon Feb 4th, 2019 07:22 |
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15th Post |
jk
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I dont know anyone who has a D5 but I think we need to consider that the D5 (21MP), as is the D500, while the D850 (45MP) and D800 (36MP) have many more photosites (pixels). The extra pixels in the D850 and D800 are probably detrimental to their low ability to yield low noise images as the extra photosites are competing for the same amount of light so the S/N ratio is much worse. Also we need to remember that with each new family of EXPEED chips there are different, usually better, denoising applied to the sensor output. I cant remember where I saw it but I read a technical paper on the S/N output from various cameras and its conclusions were essentially if we want better low noise images then we need less pixels but if you want better resolution we need to get a modern high pixel count camera but need extra light (bright conditions). This is one of the reasons I have multiple cameras - right tool for the job. Part of my move back to Dxxx series from the Dx is my desire to reduce battery weight and to consolidate to a single battery type EN-EL15 batteries. I now only have a D3S and D700 that use the larger heavier old batteries. My aim is to release these cameras in 2019. I have Z7, D850, D500, and D800 and D600, which provide me with a huge choice of resolution and AF speed. In reality the D600 also needs to go as well as I seldom use it now I am in UK.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
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| Posted: Mon Feb 4th, 2019 07:56 |
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16th Post |
jk
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blackfox wrote:iv'e actually had a friend pop round this morning who has just bought the same lens as me a sigma 150-600 C and he has it bolted to a D3300 .I was quite surprised at how fast it was to focus and its burst rate , I have yet to see any photos from it but they looked o.k on back of camera .. and it really does put the d7200 back in the ball park .. time will tell D3300 is a higher pixel beast compared to the D300S. I dont understand what is your upgrade goal. Is it better AF or lower noise at high ISO or more pixels?
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
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| Posted: Mon Feb 4th, 2019 08:32 |
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17th Post |
Eric
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jk wrote:I dont know anyone who has a D5 but I think we need to consider that the D5 (21MP), as is the D500, while the D850 (45MP) and D800 (36MP) have many more photosites (pixels). The extra pixels in the D850 and D800 are probably detrimental to their low ability to yield low noise images as the extra photosites are competing for the same amount of light so the S/N ratio is much worse. So if I understand your reasoning correctly, you are saying that the no. of pixels AS WELL AS the actual pixel dimension (recognising they are linked) both have a contribution to noise generation.
Wherever you read it, it strikes a chord with me. When you are juggling external lighting and location constraints you need a camera that will generate the least noise in the conditions you will be working....but deliver the detail your subject and use for the image demands. It will be interesting to see if Z6 images are better for general use (ie lower noise in dull conditions) than the Z7. It may be that the definition of 45mp is rarely needed, or the lighting where it's going to be used is typically in sufficient to keep iso down. So different bodies for different lighting conditions may be more appropriate? 
____________________ Eric |
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| Posted: Mon Feb 4th, 2019 09:26 |
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18th Post |
blackfox
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not even sure myself anymore Jonathon , better noise handling would be nice but not important , faster a/f again helpful but not really needed , I think at this moment in time I will stick where I am as the d300s produces good enough for me at the moment .. and every single option is a compromise of some sort be it a/f- burst rate-shots per second- noise- and price .. a wider aperture lens might be the real cure but again its money
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| Posted: Mon Feb 4th, 2019 10:57 |
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19th Post |
GeoffR
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In the days of film we would chose the film type to match the subject and conditions. Many now believe that the only choice is ISO. This isn't the case, resolution (pixel count) is also a factor in determining what is appropriate and I think Nikon have recognised this, all be it unintentionally, in the Z series by offering identical camera layouts with different sensors. The Z series user can have either maximum pixels or lower noise without having to adjust to a different control layout. Such a shame that, for me, the Z6 and Z7 are too small not withstanding that I am far from convinced by EVFs.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 4th, 2019 11:31 |
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20th Post |
Iain
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I've been where you are but I also had a D4. I tried a few D7xxx but wasn't happy. In the end I waited till I could afford a D500. For what we do in the Nikon range the D500 is it. The D7200 isn't too bad. I don't know how much the D7500 is going s/h at the moment. Might be worth a look.
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